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C-Beam Machine XLarge

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Moag, Jul 31, 2016.

  1. Darathy

    Darathy New
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    i've read somewhere on here that some poeple use a square tool and clamp it down and run a router with a end mill along it taking just a 0.1mm at a time or less.
     
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  2. jamesdjadams

    jamesdjadams Well-Known
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    Thanks Darathy. I'm trying to picture this in my head. So the end-mill would need to have at least 20mm of cutting length (for 20mm extrusion) and the router would be guided by a clamped engineer's square. I'm really new to all of this but it sounds like a good approach. I'll try to set something up tonight using wood at first. I'll need to pick up an end-mill beforehand.
     
  3. Darathy

    Darathy New
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    Yes thats the way :)
     
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  4. Ktm530

    Ktm530 New
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    Hmm
    Its been a week since i ordered my c-beam kit and it hasn't shipped yet , no worries i thought due to the holidays and all. Little did i know that you could order this kit from Europe which would save me a lot of money ( Toll customs , Freight , and Time ). The fault is 100% on my part for not doing enough research but if the us store would refund me OR send my machine i would be really happy.
     
  5. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    The forum is a wholly separate entity from the shop so posting such queries here serves little more purpose than venting frustrations (which at times is really all that is desired). If you really need answers however, it's best to contact the shop directly either through the Contact Us page or through the messaging system found along right hand side of the order status page, with the latter of these two being the better choice as it ties your question directly to your order. They can give you a better idea on the extent of the delay. Do please understand that the parts for these kits are all collected, organized and packed by hand by the shop staff so it does take a little time to get each kit together.
     
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  6. JasonE

    JasonE New
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    Has anyone tried the 1000 x 1000 C-Beam XL as mentioned here? We are getting ready to move forward with building this machine but could use the extra cutting area if there are no problems with the extension. Thanks!
     
  7. Jestah

    Jestah Well-Known
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    I am still in the process of building a standard size one but could not see much of an issue with upgrading the table to run on 1000mm Cbeam. I would however then maybe look at running two full carriage assembled on each table linear actuators (4 in total on the table axis) and then making an adjustable spacing pattern on the spoil board so you can test out different separation distance.

    The wider the separation the better the axis rigidity BUT this comes at a cost to the axis travel. IMHO I do not see one carriage assembly per actuator being able to accurately hold a 400mm span hanging off each side unsupported while achieving good acceleration.

    Sadly the more you build CNC the more you come to learn it is more an art of finely balancing the may trade offs as often making improvements in one area will rob you of performance in others OR rob you of any cash you may have in your wallet ;)
     
  8. p25o1

    p25o1 New
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    order placed , managed to snatch one during the black Friday sale.

    ordered the xpro as a controller board.

    need some advice

    1-pwm or VFD spindle.

    2-can the xpro control the VFD (start/ stop/ speed )

    3-which spindle do you recommend for this build , my main focus is wood and carbon fiber
     
  9. Moag

    Moag Veteran
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    JasonE, my gut feeling is that it would be possible, but you would weaken the the machine as Jestah suggests.

    If I were to design it, I would consider replacing the two 60x20 x 500 V-Slot side sections with 80x20 x 1000 V-Slot and obviously the two Y actuators would need to be upsized in length as well.

    I would strongly consider reducing the Y dimensions down 100mm ~ 60mm ending up with lengths 900mm to 940mm giving you a cutting distance in Y of about 740mm to 780mm.

    This would also give you the option of flipping the C-Beam End Plates and putting your lead screws in tension to minimise lead screw whip at this size (with different type of bearings of cause) and the option to easily add the handy Openbuilds Jog Knobs.

    Supporting this huge slab of a table might be problematic, firstly in it "see sawing" and secondly just moving such a large mass may end up being difficult.

    The solution of the first problem is a easy, by throwing in some more Openbuilds parts - Solid V-Wheels, Black Angle Corner Connector, 3 Hole Joining Strip Plate, Eccentric Spacer, some Low Profile Screws M5 (1x 25mm, 1x 15mm and 2x 10mm) and 3x Tee Nuts to make up a Mini Assembly Like this...

    Table support wheels v4.png Table support wheels v3.png Table support wheels v2.png

    Note that the centre 15mm screw would need to be filed down to fit the V-Slot, just because I know how much you like filing...;) Oh this is also a good mod for the standard sized XLarge.

    You would need four of these at the least to slot into the side frames like this...

    Table support wheels v1.png

    For a Larger Y axis machine you would also have to move the Side Frame Upright to recenter the spindle to the centre of the table movement and note that the table will move further out the front and back. Standard XL is about 170mm, so you would be looking at about 420mm max to 390mm, dependant on how long your sides are.

    Table support wheels v6.png

    Hope that gives you some food for thought...;)

    Good on you :thumbsup:

    A1- Either would be good.

    A2- Xpro (v3?) uses GRBL in theory yes..

    A3- I personally would go a water cooled spindle if cutting carbon fibre, as I would be concerned with it shorting the internal motor "stuff"...:eek:

    Hope that helps a little.
     
  10. p25o1

    p25o1 New
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    thx kyo,

    the water cooled ones are AC/3 phase type.
    they have an external control unit, which i'm not clear on how to connect to the xpro / GRBL
    do they use pwm or other type of serial com ?

    do you recommend one , which is known to work with GRBL ,

    thx again
     
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  11. Moag

    Moag Veteran
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    He He no worries "Kyo" (@p25o1)...;)

    No real need to, manual control of speed is fine in most situations, just set the speed at what you calculated when working out your CAM Gcode, but should be possible by sending a signal from the pro / GRBL to the Spindle VFD. Haven't worked it out for myself yet though :confused: Lazy I guess.

    I made up a how to set up a Chinese Spindle and VFD that might help you out.

    Craig aka Moag...;)
     
    #221 Moag, Dec 11, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
  12. p25o1

    p25o1 New
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    OMG , "kyo" loool
    :ROFL:
    thx Moag again

    went through the PDF and that helped.

    will keep looking on how to interface :thumbsup:
     
    Moag likes this.
  13. bushyfromoz

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    Is this design suitable for upsizing a bit further for a 1200x500mm cut area? I need something with a bit more height in the Z so I can get an manual indexing head beneath it as well (prob around 300mm from the spoil board). Sorry for the Q, Im new to all this
     
  14. Moag

    Moag Veteran
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    G'Day @bushyfromoz, short answer... not really.

    I gather you want to make gun stocks??
    So you would probably be better of with a custom OX style build, that is skinny across the X axis (500mm or less) and long in the Y axis (1500mm - width of gantry plate) with the height of the side gantry plates high enough to get your Z height, to get where you need to get for your manual indexer.

    On on second thoughts it might be better to just lower its build table to get the Z clearance by raising the side frames, to avoid the gantry wobbling at such dizzy heights..

    On third thoughts have a look a Ronald van Arkel's build for inspiration OpenBuilds Promoveo Study Builds on how to go.;)
     
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  15. bushyfromoz

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    Thanks, im not just after gunstocks. I am trying to con up with a machine that will do your typical routing of ply etc but be suitable for some gunstock work as well.

    There link you have provided really has some food for thought though, doubling up some of the supports and changing it to C channel for lead screws on the X could be interesting, and i imagine strong
     
    #225 bushyfromoz, Dec 19, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
    Moag likes this.
  16. Moag

    Moag Veteran
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    Sounds good,

    Just note that the Openbuilds Acme Leads Screws will give you 1000mm, minus the width of your gantry plate and minus how the axis is attached to the frame...; if you get me...
     
  17. bushyfromoz

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    Yeah. Been looking at 12mm screws for the gantry. I need to get some software so i can see how it calibrates for the different pitch etc. I need something visual as i cant visualise it in my head
     
    #227 bushyfromoz, Dec 19, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  18. bushyfromoz

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    something like this with a high Z and strengthened sides would work? I would fill in the frame with aluminum plate with a Perspex window in it for strength and controlling the mess
     

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  19. Moag

    Moag Veteran
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    If you want plenty of room to grow designing and making your own stuff, I would suggest having a look at Fusion 360. That's if your got a computer that can run it and you have the time to learn it. Get the "Enthusiast Licence" ;)

    Though expect a huge and I mean HUGE learning curve. There's a lot of online help in various formats to get you there, so have a look see, so you've got an idea of what you're getting yourself into. But it will do most things including complex CAM along with 3D modelling and rendering.

    I think you're on the right path for a suitable machine, if your willing to modify it to suit your needs and are willing to go though the learning process...
     
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  20. bushyfromoz

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    Making a router. Thanks for that info =D
     
  21. Dollarz81

    Dollarz81 New
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    IMG_3186.JPG A slight variation on the XL using 3 1000mm c-beams.
     
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  22. Thanatos

    Thanatos New
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    I was looking at what would be required for this, and the pricing looks pretty close. Extend the two linear actuators (going by the retail store pricing, I think the difference is $8US per), some extrusion ($15US total, IIRC) and voila! And since you're extending an already-overbuilt axis (as far as rigidity goes), I wouldn't be too worried about loss of accuracy. I'd be "in" for an XXL variant, for sure!
     
  23. Thanatos

    Thanatos New
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    Is this the moving bridge/stationary table? That would be slick!
     
  24. Moag

    Moag Veteran
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    Looks like a moving bridge me Thantos..
     
  25. Dollarz81

    Dollarz81 New
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    Yes it is.
     
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  26. Moag

    Moag Veteran
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    Love the "Less is More" design of your build Dollarz81, great job mate...
     
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  27. Dollarz81

    Dollarz81 New
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    Thanks. But there will definitely be much "more"
     
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  28. tetsuwan

    tetsuwan New
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    Hi guys,

    I'm just about to finish the mechanical bit of my XLarge and as I went along I noticed some things I would like to upgrade, like switching the two 20x60x500 to c-beams for 20mm more Z -height, and build a table from 20x80 v-slot instead of MDF.

    However, my main issue is the deflection on Z/X. This is me pressing on top of the spindle motor,

    I've been thinking about how to stiffen the X C-beam without changing the gantrys, but nothing really makes sense. I saw one build in the gallery that uses double c-beams joined together, but that means you have to extend the screws for the wheels (using threaded rods instead) and that creates new problems like mounting the Z-gantry.

    There is some space on the "inside" of the c-beam to add material, like L-shaped stainless steel or U-shaped aluminum. But the maximum material thickness is about 3mm to clear the acme blocks. Is that really going to make any difference?

    Any ideas out there?
     
  29. Giarc

    Giarc OpenBuilds Team
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    Could you add 1/4 inch spacers and longer screws to the X axis axles then bolt on a 1/4 aluminum plate the whole length of the X on the side opposite the channel? I did something similar on the Y axis of my build.
     
  30. Moag

    Moag Veteran
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    That's the whole idea of the build is to adapt it to your needs:thumbsup:, the hardest part is working out what they are and the real world limitations.;)

    What you're mainly seeing is combination of twist and deflexion of the long Xaxis C-Beam, which is hard get around. The best bang for your buck is simply reducing the span of C-Beam.
    Something that I'm planning to do on my build for that very reason, as its main use will be carving out curved 2.5D aluminium moulds where accuracy and rigidity is what is needed and not work piece size or speed. Still thinking about how I'm going to do it, but I think it is on the cards for my future.

    Have a look back to page 3 of this post to how I added a aluminium U channel to the C-Beam and this discussion of some alternative solutions. If you come up with some others, please share.. ;)
     

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