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LCD Based SLA Resin Printer

Discussion in '3D printers' started by evilc66, May 3, 2016.

  1. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    I couldn't see the max resolution, as with it blinking away on the wrong cable, it wouldn't show up in Windows. The iPad display works fine though. I'll know more tonight.

    As for the LCD frame, the only downside is that it makes the display more fragile. For a native backlight setup it shouldn't be a big deal as the LCD will be fully supported by the mounting plate that I will make. If I go about modifying it for use with an external backlight, I may have to mount it to glass or acrylic to provide additional support.
     
  2. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    Check your laptop model spec's ;)

    And yes you are correct, custom frame support is a given.
     
  3. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    Looks like neither laptop has a video card capable of 4K (NV3100m on one, Quadro FX3800m on the other). That's ok, that's why I bought the USB adapter. Oh wait! No it's not, because there was NOTHING IN THE ******* BOX!!!!! I was so pissed last night when I saw that. I bought it at Microcenter. It was shrink wrapped. Looks like it was a return and no one checked to see if there was actually anything in the box. Fortunately they were cool about it (just got back from there) and gave me a full refund.

    Now, off to Amazon I go!
     
  4. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    What the fudge. Empty box, that is an insult ... LOL. You are right, neither of does do 4K resolution. How does a USB adapter give you 4K video ? Is it taking raw data on the PC and great a new video out port ?
     
  5. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    It's like a low power GPU. It doesn't do the bulk of the work (the CPU and GPU on the PC does most of the heavy lifting as a "virtual graphics card"), but it spits out delicious 4k video. I haven't looked too deep into it, but there are a few different models out there, and they all seem to be pretty well reviewed. I think most of them are using a chip developed by Displaylink, who seem to be the king of video over USB (and other non-traditional methods, like ethernet and wireless)
     
  6. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    I C. I did not know such products existed and in part because I've never researched the topic, but good to know, and glad you have a solution so that you can keep using your old laptops for a while.
     
  7. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    I was hoping to find an Expresscard solution just from a reliability standpoint, and the fact that the laptop I use for the printers doesn't have a USB 3.0 port, but didn't come up with anything. The USB 3.0 issue will be dealt with by the docking station that I just ordered. Apparently the Latitude e6410 has USB 3.0 through the dock connector, but not through the on board connectors.

    Anyway, I ordered a unit from Plugable through Amazon. Should be here Friday. I'll be able to test it out on my other laptop that has USB 3.0 until the dock shows up.
     
  8. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    So Friday/Saturday is the first time you will be able to test the display. Hope it works out well for you, especially since I am partially responsible for your upgrade ;)
     
  9. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    You know, there is a point in time where you just need to shoot the engineer. My brain just won't stop on this whole LCD SLA concept.

    So we have two high resolution options with the iPad display and the 4K laptop panel. What if you wanted better resolution than a typical FDM printer (assuming 0.4mm nozzle) on the X and Y, far better Z resolution, but a very large build area? 24" 1080p TV's are dime a dozen, have HDMI inputs (run everything with a Raspberry Pi and NanoDLP), and will have an X/Y resolution of about 0.27mm.

    I just so happen :rolleyes: to have an unused Vizio E241-B1 24" 1080p TV sitting around doing nothing. It may just get repurposed here in the not too distant future.

    I hate myself :D
     
    #159 evilc66, Oct 27, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
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  10. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    There exist 0.15 mm (150 micron) FDM nozzles that I think can produce 20 micron Z resolution. However, all of that is very nice, but you are still dealing with shrinkage and deformation since the whole piece is warm and as you add mass (layers) it compresses under its own weight. That can be solved by cooling it so that it completely solidify's. But non of that addresses your "problems".

    But I get your point with 1080p, that is close to the thickness of a human hair, 200-250 microns. While we are at large build platform, 24" 4K monitor will give you 138 microns and 22" will give you 126 microns. Which is small enough to be acceptable as well as the price for such monitors, both IPS and PLS display's.

    The cheapest I can get is Samsung U24E590D - 23.5" 4K = $410. That is no less than XY: 20.48" × 11.52" or 52.02 cm × 29.26 cm (1522.42 cm²) Compare that to the 15.6" display which give you a XY of 13.6" × 7.65" or 34.54 cm × 19.43 cm (670.89 cm²)

    The question is; Is the 37 micron XY resolution difference between the 15.6" and the 23.5" something of value ??

    The 15.6" approach is not a bad one, it is 3 times cheaper than the 23.5" display and already a larger build platform than any commercial machine. a 22-24" 1080p display (new) is close to the same price as the 15.6".

    This is not easy ... God damned it ... LOL
     
  11. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    I know. It never ends. There's always some other derivative that comes up that could be useful. I don't plan on starting another build until I get the iPad and 4K versions built. As to which one comes first... Well that's to be seen :)
     
  12. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    In terms of cost vs resolution and build volume, the 15.6" is king atm. $185.99 is 1/5 of the $1000 mark if we compete with the Forge 1, that leave us with some $800 to all other parts. Lets say $150-200 for a nema-23 hybrid or servo motor (no way I will add a stepper motor ... lol), then we have some $600-650 left for the screw, frame, light, etc etc. Is a $1K mark possible ????
     
  13. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    I'd say $1K is easy, providing that doesn't include the PC/Laptop to drive it (my C-Beam based FDM printer that I just finished was about $1K, and that's because of all the linear stages). Once the Udoo X86 platforms start shipping, then those will be a great way to make the system standalone for under $1K.
     
  14. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    Udoo X86 is a great PC and since it can run 4 x 4K as in 4 displays, one can with ease add a monitor that serves as the UI section of the machine where you control every setting from. Just transfer the model from a work/CAD PC to the machine.

    Isn't ideas wonderful sometimes ... he he
     
  15. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    I've been looking closely at the Udoo X86 these last few days, and seeing if there were any alternatives that would fit the bill. I even looked at barebones PCs to see if that was semi cost effective. The PC's aren't, but they have a lot more available power depending on the components you stuff in there. Asrock has their Beebox line that is pretty affordable, but you are still looking at over $200 once you put memory and a drive in there, and that's not counting the cost of the OS.

    The Udoo X86 looks very affordable at first blush, until you find out that the e.MMC storage that's on board for the higher end units isn't big enough for a Windows installation. There is an M.2 SSD slot, and a SATA port, but it just means it's not as cheap as it looks.

    I was also somewhat excited about the Arduino 101 compatible hardware. It would be dead simple to stick something like a Protoneer CNC shield on it and have a fully integrated controller, but it seems that support for the Intel Curie module that powers it and the Arduino/Genuino 101 isn't going to be supported by Marlin. Not sure about Repetier or Sailfish firmwares though. I still need to dig into whether the common stepper drivers like the DRV8825 can support 3.3v logic. Anyway, might be worth a try.

    I didn't have much luck finding alternatives either. Most don't support 4K resolutions, even if they did have a Displayport.
     
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  16. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    As far as I know, Udoo is the only board that does 4K, unless you start looking at a proper PC. The Udoo X86 Advanced $149 is cheaper and more powerful than the Beebox series or Intel NUC series. With the Udoo, add a 2.5" HDD like HGST 500 GB, they are fairly cheap. It does not need to be super fast, its not for gaming :)

    Regarding the shield, I have not looked at that, so I lean on you for a while. I know I want to run NanoDLP but that is as far as I have come.
     
  17. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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  18. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    Interesting. There could be some serious time and detail improvements with that.
     
  19. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    Absolutely. I wonder if the guy behind NanonDLP would be interested in adding a logarithm so that one can chose a similar method.
     
  20. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    So, good news and bad news.

    Good news, I got the display working!!!

    Bad news, I don't think that the n3100 series Celeron CPU's are going to cut the mustard with these displays. I picked up a Zotac CI323 barebones PC and stuffed a 120GB SSD and 8gb or RAM in there. No matter what I did as far as BIOS, chipset drivers, or display drivers, I could not get the LCD to recognize properly in Windows 10. I knew that the LCD was working after plugging it into a powerful Lenovo CAD workstation laptop that has a native 4K display. No matter what I did, I couldn't get it to work, and Zotac wasn't of much help.

    The next step was to kick the power level up a notch. Yesterday I grabbed an Intel NUC with an i3 6100U (more powerful GPU in addition to the increased CPU power). It's the lowest version that has a displayport (mini in this case), but it fired up the LCD without complaining one bit.

    What makes this unfortunate is that these displays may not play nice with SBC's like the UDOO x86 seeing as it's using the same n3100 series CPUs. It's possible that the Ultra version that's sporting the Pentium version of the CPU may work, but it has the same pricetag as the i3 based NUC, but without wifi and bluetooth. Sure, it comes with 8gb of RAM installed, but that's only $50 for the NUC.

    Anyway, I managed to get a somewhat in focus picture of the pixel structure showing the white pixels. As expected, it's a white sub-pixel every 4 sub-pixels. Not sure if I'm willing to tear this one up just yet, but maybe in the future.

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    I C. I can't comment on your 4K issues, but an i3 PC is economical enough to be a good choice. Regarding the sub pixel, there is the UV test looking at it up close like you did for the picture.
     
  22. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    Not sure what you mean there. Can you clarify?
     
  23. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    Sure. Test with UV leds as the light source and get a close up to check if we can see UV trhough the white subpixel.
     
  24. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    Oh, right. Of course. :duh:

    I'll see about ordering a second LCD so that I'm not dead in the water if this doesn't go well. May be a few weeks out though.
     
  25. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    same supplier or another source ?
     
  26. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    Most likely same supplier, but I'll see what I can find. I'll be using one of the three LCDs that I posted about earlier, with another LG being the most likely, but the Sharp RGB might be a possibility, just to see what difference the change in the sub-pixel arrangement makes in terms of print quality.

    I really wish I didn't have a bathroom that I need to renovate so that I could tinker with this some more.
     
  27. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    You are going into this deeper than ... well, maybe anyone expected. "Seeking superior solutions"

    :)
     
  28. evilc66

    evilc66 Journeyman
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    Go big or go home :)
     
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  29. Oneminde

    Oneminde New
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    Exactly what I just said in a conversation about designing and building my own house. In Sweden, the architect and the building constructor are separated, the architect deals with the aesthetic design of buildings and the space within the site surrounding the buildings, the artistic aspect. While the constructor deals with material property, correct dimensioning, load and strain. One comes from the school of art and decoration and the other comes from the school of natural science, academia and engineering. But in my world, these two are one and the same.

    Do it properly no matter how daunting the task at hand is or don't do it at all, or just: Go big or go home.

    By the time I am done educating myself, I fully intend to own my own company and make it my daytime job.
     
  30. ih8lag

    ih8lag New
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    #180 ih8lag, Nov 10, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2016
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