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Pink Panther - MendelMax variant

Discussion in '3D printers' started by DiggerJ, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. DiggerJ

    DiggerJ Master
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  2. JustinTime

    JustinTime Master
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    Oh, my, DiggerJ, lovely color! :ROFL::ROFL:
     
  3. DiggerJ

    DiggerJ Master
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    Look at my pic...do I look like I'm insecure about my masculinity? I figure somebody has got to do it. And I'm amazed at the number of people who see it ans say they really like the Pink and Black together. I found some Hello Kitty MendelMax .stl's, but thought it might be going a bit too far! :cool:
     
  4. DiggerJ

    DiggerJ Master
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  5. stargeezer

    stargeezer Veteran
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    Hey Digger! Looks like you really were ready to pull the pink out for this one! VERY, VERY neat.

    Now that you've got it together using these altered parts, how do you think it stacks up against the regular MM (as if there is one)?

    Great job.
    Larry
     
  6. DiggerJ

    DiggerJ Master
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  7. DiggerJ

    DiggerJ Master
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    The Pink Panther Lives! Some more last minute changes and I am really liking this one. The aux power and MosFet board let this thing go from room temp to 100C in about 4 minutes. Easily the fastest warm-up at Area515 Makerspace. Got a little more bed tuning to do, but early results are good. This build was an after thought, and I am glad I did it. I know a guy in the southeast part of the USA who is going to have a nice build coming to him soon. Yellow and black, and another over-sized MendelMax with some nice add-ons. A few more pics of the Pink Panther:
    PP1.jpg PP2.jpg PP3.jpg PP4.jpg
     
    mybuild14 likes this.
  8. feenix3k

    feenix3k Journeyman
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    Man it looks nice!
     
  9. JustinTime

    JustinTime Master
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    @DiggerJ, can you tell me more about the mosfet and how you did the upgrade. I have an xbox 203w brick but it only gives out 12v. I've been looking all over for someone who raised the voltage on those. If you solved the problem in a different way I'd like to know how?
     
  10. DiggerJ

    DiggerJ Master
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    Some of the motion boards (RAMPS, etc.) only deal with 11.5 amps through the board without complaining, (read as: curling smoke from around the Fet on board), so there is a little printable PCB that you can put a few parts together (under $10) and use the Ramps board to signal the MosFet add-on board to pump power from a second PSU directly to the heatbed. No blown boards, and you get to throw the juice to the bed and it heats up much faster. I cost about $35 even with all new parts, and save bunches of time.

    Look at this:
    https://www.youmagine.com/designs/ultimaker-heated-bed-mosfet-relay-hack-v2
     
  11. JustinTime

    JustinTime Master
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    I asked since you've said that your bed heats up in about four minutes. Mine heats up to 110┬░c in abut 10min. I thought that what you use is more 'juice' but it seems like you don't. I used, from day one, these things for both the bed and the extruder (they are so cheap I bought two but should have bought more LOL). The problem is the 'brick' I use is only 12v and I think 13v or 14v will be better. I thought that that is what you did.
     
  12. DiggerJ

    DiggerJ Master
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    Nope, I make the little boards in the web link, and use the 360W 30amp power supplies from Amazon (around $23). I am not saying what I do is the right way, only what I did on the cartesians.

    I bought server power supplies for the deltas. 750w and around 64amps for from HP/C0mpaq DL180's for $17 each and they work great and have good fans in them for server survival. You have to solder a resister over a couple of terminals to bypass the soft-start switch, but great power and small size.
     
  13. stargeezer

    stargeezer Veteran
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    Hi digger! You mentioned a bigger MendleMax. Can you share some details or a link about that? I've got a pile of parts and extrusions all for a super-size MM2+. I'd love to see what you've done.

    See ya pal.
    Larry
     
  14. DiggerJ

    DiggerJ Master
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    Mine is 100mm wider than stock, and 50mm taller. It gives me room for a 300x300 print surface and almost 2 full inches more Z space. It is a really nice size. When sitting at our maker space beside several other printers, the other's got instant print bed envy!

    It is a carefully thought out match of the original MMX 1.5 design with upgrades where it made sense. It uses the ZX-2 X and Z ends, a taller set of properly designed vertices (several of the ones posted our there require rebuilds of other parts and/or altering the extrusionsoze/geometry.

    It does notuse, nor need the 10 or 12mm linnear shafts that you see so many people posting about. The Z section rides on 2 shafts and 1 screw in a nice triangular configuration and is rock solid. I am designing some new parts for the Y and X pieces to use V-slot rail in those areas. It will make it much less expensive, get rid of the normal LM__UU bearings that are crappy and loud, add yet another piece of standardized C-slot construction. Oh yeah, I like V-slot, in case you haven't figured it out. :)

    I will be glad to answer any questions I can. Afte I finishe this order for a copy of this printer that I am sending out, I will hopefully get time to sit down and post the locations of the print files.
     
  15. stargeezer

    stargeezer Veteran
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    Great! I'd like to build up a large format printer, on the order of at least 500x500 build area. I'd like to start it after I finish the CNC Router I'm building right now. http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/g...are-strength-power-and-speed.1549/#post-16101

    It sounds like you and I think alike about the LM_UU bearings, I agree that the V-wheels are a VERY nice upgrade. If a person is going to the expense of using hardened, polished rods and good quality bearings (not the Chinese Ebay "stuff"), the V-wheels, rail combos make excellent sense. Plus it's great watching a printer swoosh around at acel-decel numbers that would tear up an typical printer. Of course you need slightly more powerful steppers (I'm using 72 inoz NEMA 17's from Automation Technologies) and 8825 drivers.
     
  16. DiggerJ

    DiggerJ Master
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    That is where i get mine, usually 10 at a time to kill the shipping. Nice to see powerful NEMA 17'***** my doorstep in 2 days at 10 for under $100.00.
    I have some Bronze oilite bushings coming to see if I can make better use of the shafts on the MendelMax.

    The big build I have is 600x600 on a fixed granite bed. One of the young guns at our makerspace is building some high flow fast hot ends that put out some nice results in very little time. For example, a liced file with an E3D V6 on my printer that takes 11 hours, will take barely over 2 hours with his hot end, or as I kid him, his "caulking gun"! It is his school project with E3D Volcano as his inspiration. My plans for the big printer is to use it to print an entire printer printed hardware set at one time. Just select the plans and load the files (sheeted) and walk away. Hoping to mentor the masses on building their own printers, and I can think of no better way than to teach a build at our maker space and have them leave with a functional, properly performing printer. I see too many people on the forums get frustrated and give up after they buy a kit and never get it to print with any great success.

    The big beat will be enclsed in a big clear box with electronics and filament in a separate compartment on on end. It will be fun to haul it in to a school of makerfaire and just plug it in and start spitting out plasticy goodness!
     
  17. stargeezer

    stargeezer Veteran
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    That's cool digger. It touches on one of my "projects" which is to design a printer that anybody can build in 4hrs or an experienced person 2hrs. Have all the parameters preloaded on a ramps that only needs to have cables plugged into jacks. No fiddling with making up connector ends, zero soldering, nothing plugs into the board itself and the mechanicals all built into "bricks" that are screwed together into a final printer. Not a true kit, but not a "printer in a box" either. Sorta like model airplane ARF kits - just add glue, a motor and a radio. Tab 'A' into slot 'a'. Include a disk with a Sketch, Ponterface, Slicer a handful of well tested first builds that are more than the standard 20mm cube.

    Next up the real deal closer, a $300-400 pricetag. Affordable, accessible technology that any working parent can use to open a new world for their kids. Mom or dad does not HAVE to be a Maker to kick the door open, or break into the collage fund to finance it and it still be as good a printer as our Mendel's. I'll have a prototype up and running in a couple weeks. As soon as I finish my CNC Router.
     
  18. DiggerJ

    DiggerJ Master
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    Well, I have tried to respond to your concept build idea for the last couple of hours and can't do it without getting frustrated, so I will simply wish you good luck and good sales. For me, that marketing strategy is one of my biggest peeves. I like your ease of assembly model. It totally makes sense. We get guys who come check out our makerspace wanting to build something and don't have the tools. They realize the value of a place who has what they don't. I hate the cost to universal business when we try to cram an unrealistic low value to time and service. You had me on the build concept, but lost me when you considered the price the "real deal closer". The proof in this is in the number of Kickstarter rollouts who sell great ideas and place no value on how to fulfill. They place value on ideas and strategy, and little to none on process of fulfillment.

    If you build a great product or concept, you don't have to give it away. People expect to pay a reasonable amount for a product when they also expect it to be around for support and parts and future products. Price is a factor of value, not the other way around. And if it helps, I have several national sales records in various products,

    ****, I thought I could not do this. I truly mean no disrespect, and also know that your price is not as "cheap" as some of the others. Just don't give away the value of the concept over the individual parts. Anyone can diminish the value of their concept to gain sales.
     
  19. stargeezer

    stargeezer Veteran
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    Hey Pal, no problem and I think you might have taken something I said wrong, or I (most likely) failed to properly express my idea. I have no desire to build and sell kits. None at all. But if I can come up with a beginner build that won't intimidate folks who are not as experienced or knowledgeable as we are to successfully complete a build it would be far better than seeing them give up and walk away. You had mentioned the people who start a build, get lost and never complete it - to me, that's the greatest loss. The people who with a bit of help or a slightly less aggressive learning curve could move on to learn and grew with it.

    When I mention a price as being the 'real deal closer', I really could have used better language. :) So let me try again and I'll try to remove my foot from my mouth. While I'm in absolute favor of maker spaces and the folks who show up and are willing to share all the knowledge they have built, my hats off to them and to you for all you give. In my area there is no makerspace, but there ARE lots of guys like me who are willing to open their shops to people who really want to learn new skills.

    Some are like a young man who drops in at my place. A really nice kid who is really sharp, but he has parents that have zero ability help him with the things he wants to learn. They don't understand the drive to create or build and since they spend all their away from work in bars or in front of a TV getting stoned, they could care less. To ask them to pop $1000 for a 3d printer kit would be a waste of effort, they don't have it and wouldn't use it for a printer if they did. There are lots of kids like him out there and I think reaching them with a printer like I described (that I'd probably pay for) could be the difference between a kid saved from or lost to the same 'lifestyle' as his parents. Low cost is pretty important in a case like this. I want to help, but my pockets are only so deep.

    I know I have not mentioned it since it's really not important in most cases, but I'm a totally disabled vet who lives in a power wheelchair. There is a Makerspace that has started in a town around 50 miles from us here in rural IL. For most people that's not far at all, but for me it's a journey that requires a lot. If my health is not perfect, I have to get somebody to drive me in my van and I don't want to get into all the details about what it's like, but when you make a effort to go someplace and then discover that it's upstairs in a building with no elevator or no ramp at the door, it don't matter how well equipped they are. (BTW, I have a wonderfully equipped shop at home). This is not a slam, the space was temporarily donated to them as they start up.

    If I can design a printer that some company can build the kits at a price point where they can still make the percentage they need to keep lights on and bills paid it's all good. If I can take a kit like that and reach a life that's floundering, it's great! And if I can turn on some young person to technology and making, it's totally awesome!
     
    #19 stargeezer, Apr 24, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
  20. DiggerJ

    DiggerJ Master
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    Wow, I was out in left field. I guess I was reading this at the wrong time, or wrong way. I am a very strong believer in mentoring and service. I am also really frustrated by the people who are getting taken by Kickstarter startups with good intentions but little organizational skills and then they fail and leave the people with money on the line stuck with no product. It is always the same story. Try to beat the old adage "Good, Fast. Cheap. Choose any two. We have to guys in our group who each just lost $1500 on a printer that will never arrive.

    For my misunderstanding, I apologize. Your points are well taken. And as far as shops, I mostly go to the Makerspace to be around other builder geeks like myself. I am very lucky in that my personal shop is very well equipped for wood, metal, powder coating, welding, motorcycle lifts and frame jigs, etc. Better than I deserve.

    If you are good, we're good.
     
  21. feenix3k

    feenix3k Journeyman
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    You two are really good guys. ( DiggerJ & Stargeezer ) Going out of your way to help someone learn new skills. One thing about being a Geek, ( or a geek want to be as my roommate calls me) we always want to learn new thing to make us grow and then pass the knowledge on to help another person learn new things.
     
  22. stargeezer

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    Heck yeah I'm all good buddy. Was never anything else. I'm the one who didn't explain himself in a reasoned manner, thereby causing you to get upset. Kickstarter is a pretty awesome idea, but there has got to be a lot of research into the company you are putting your money into or it can be a black hole that money goes into and nothing comes out. That's a shame.

    My son is putting together a small business plan that he hopes to use some sort of crowd funding to help with the startup. He's spent 6 years buying equipment, truck, dumping his paycheck into the ground work. Everything is debt free and now he's saving to cover rent and insurance - the business insurance is going to cost as much per year as his big welder did (he's a welder BTW). He's hoping to raise operating funds to cover the first year as he get things rolling. I don't recall the name of the crowd funding group he's working with, but they specialize in service businesses and seem to do a lot of background checking. That's all good in my mind. I'll also add that I won't be advertising to raise funds for him - he's a rock solid guy and a very hard worker, a good investment in my mind, but, I don't want to be known as "that" guy who is raising money for their kid.
     
  23. JustinTime

    JustinTime Master
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    Sorry I'm going back to topic (lol) but Diggerj, are you using 8mm rods and LM8UUs for the runners. If yes, where did you get the LM8UUs. I bought twice, a dozen each time, on ebay and they are garbage, all of them. I have to fight them to find the right position where they glide, more or less, free up and down the rod. Any little deviation and they jam. Mostly they prefer to slide in a spiral, for crying out loud. The rods I got on McMaster-Carr. They are dead on 8mm, as per my digital caliber.
     
  24. DiggerJ

    DiggerJ Master
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    I bought 495mm long, 8mm shafts and LM8uu bearings from Amazon. Shafts were fine, but overpriced. Most of the bearings are "OK" but by there very nature, they are probably not the best item for our use.

    I have these coming to try on the 8mm shafts, I have experience with them in other projects, so we will see.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IG7LK58/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    The plans for Lautr3L (my cross between a Lautr3k and a MendelMax will have 2 Z rods on each side, with 20x20 V-slot rains for the X and Y axis (ala Lautr3k). It will have the belts from the MendelMax on the X and Y, with OpenBuilds TR8*8 4 start screws and nuts to drive the Z axis. Faster, cleaner than MendelMax, cheaper and no sourcing the crazy expensive high angle lead screws like the Lautr3k.

    Will let you know as soon as I get and test the bushings. (should be here Monday)
     
  25. feenix3k

    feenix3k Journeyman
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    JustinTime, I hope I don't have that issue because I also got my LM8UU on ebay. I know a lot of stuff is good but then you never know when some one is selling headaches. The guy I got my bearings has a 100% rating. So I hope I'm ok.
     
  26. stargeezer

    stargeezer Veteran
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    Thanks for the heads up on the bushings Digger, I was looking for some. They seen to be out of stock right now, but Amazon says there are more coming.
     
  27. DiggerJ

    DiggerJ Master
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    I would hold off until I see how they fit and work. They should be better than the bearings, but the OD and length is a bit off. I think I have it worked out, but will know in the next couple of days.
     
  28. stargeezer

    stargeezer Veteran
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    ok, Perhaps they will be back in stock by then.

    Last month I saw a printer build by a guy in France who was using chrome plated brass tubing for rods and on the parts he was printing that typically required bearings, he was printing little fingers that contacted the tubing. I'd think it would be short lived even if it was kept well lubed. I was interested because of our previous discussion. These bushings might be a viable alternative to that weak spot in his design.
     
  29. stargeezer

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    freenix3k - was that "sidewinder"? No matter who it is on Ebay, if it was a cheaper price they are Chinese bearings, imported by the seller, price tripled and listed on Ebay. While there may be a seller who has a better source, all I have seen there seem to come from one of a couple plants. I gave up trying to find good bearings at a reasonable price and now I order from the Chinese vendor in quantity and check the bearings for fit when they arrive. I keep the best fitting ones, donate a bunch to high school teacher who gets them to kids who are making things. The worse ones I simply throw into the trash. For what I pay for the case, I still come out ahead. I wish it were a different story, but industrial quality bearings are just out of my price range. I can buy that whole box from China for what 3-4 US bearings would cost.

    Truly sad.

    After using these bearings for a while I have learned that there are a few things you need to do before using them in your machine. First of all check for fit, you will be amazed at the difference between them. Select the ones that fit the best. In short they should slip onto a rod with minimal (read - no effort, you don't want a press fit)effort. Before slipping and bearing onto and shaft, the cut edge of the rod must be smoothly beveled so that no sharp edge cuts the inside of the bearing. After selecting your bearings, pour a inch of paint thinner into a plastic container, drop your bearings in and agitate the container. Let them soak a few minutes, agitate again and remove the bearings. Look into the container and see if there are any ball bearings that have fallen out. If you see any, you'll need to examine your bearings to find the one shedding and discard them. Repeat. Lay the bearings out on a towel to completely dry. Be patient and resist the urge to blow them out with compressed air. It will blow them apart.

    To lube the now clean bearing, a light oil is recommended. I like Marvel Mystery oil that can be found at any auto supply store. I soak them in a container of the oil for a few hours. This gives time foe the oil to seep into every little space in the bearing. There are all kinds of lubes you can use, but stay away from automotive engine oils. They contain treatments that can actually harm the bearings.

    During use of my printer, I have a small squeeze bottle of Marvel Mystery oil that I use to put a drop or two on each of the rods, being careful not to drop any onto the print or print bed.
     
  30. feenix3k

    feenix3k Journeyman
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    I have used Marvel Mystery oil before it is good stuff. As for the bearings they shipped from California so they should be ok for the printer I am building.
     

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