Welcome to Our Community

Unlock hidden features. Sign Up for Free Today!

C-Beam cnc

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Kyo, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. GrayUK

    GrayUK Master
    Staff Member Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    May 5, 2014
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    242
    bms85.
    I'll keep that in mind for the near future. :thumbsup:
    Gray
     
  2. Justin Christensen

    Justin Christensen Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    5
    I've noticed on eBay someone sells these plates and they have one that is 2 inches taller on the z axis. Does anybody know anything about this? Has anyone used that? I could see how you would get more room in the z, but would it be less precise?
     
  3. beardyblair

    beardyblair Veteran
    Builder

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    42
    I have bought the taller plates from Chris and can confirm that they are of very high quality. As for accuracy, I think that it will be a very minimal drop in precision. Obviously, a taller plate will be a bigger lever and so more force will be placed on the wheels and thus more chance of movement. I have used these plates to make a taller printer and have scaled up the Sphinx design to be 1m x 1m, the flex shown on the DTI at various places during testing was minimal. I will retest once operational to give real world working figures.
     
    Kyo likes this.
  4. C-Line

    C-Line New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2014
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kyo,
    Now that your machine is finished and in use, I was wondering what your actual, usable cutting area turned out to be?
     
  5. ChrisV

    ChrisV Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    2
    Kyo, Got my parts and starting assembly on the x/z axis. I'm having a problem on the step to join the x axis carriage to the z axis assembly. I'm unable to get the 12 m5-10mm bolts to engage with the tee nuts. It seems they are just 2mm too short. the 15mm bolts are too long. I'm sure it's just me and my fat fingers but..... If you have some words of wisdom I would sure appreciate it. Also do you have a source for the gt3 closed loop belt for the z axis reduction? I've mounted mine directly for now, but would like to mount the other way.
     
  6. Kyo

    Kyo Master
    Staff Member Resident Builder Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2014
    Messages:
    559
    Likes Received:
    474
    C-line --- Really close. I do not remember the exact numbers But I was only 5mm or so shy of what I expected. after mounting the cables chain and other misc. mount that took up travel length.

    ChrisV-- Awesome :thumbsup: 10mm long M5 was a little fiddly to secure.. it might be easier to "barely" engage the t-nut on each screw aligning them all in the same orientation. Then slide the Z-axis C-beam over the T-nuts and into place. This way each screw will already be engaged with a t-nut and your don't have to "fish" around to find the t-nut under the plate. Towards the bottom of the last page I posted some links for the belt system that might be helpful..
     
  7. beardyblair

    beardyblair Veteran
    Builder

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    42
    I had a similar issue with the T-nuts I had here, spinning them round so that the pertrusion goes into the slot worked for me. Check to make sure that when tightened that they do not bind.
     
  8. ChrisV

    ChrisV Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    2
    Kyo, Beardyblair, I worked on this for about 4 hours. I tried to engage the tee nuts by one thread and slide the x carriage onto the z but no luck, too tight plus the nuts kept falling off. I finally flipped them over and managed to slip the x axis carriage onto the z. They seem to not interfere with anything and tightened up well. Even if I could of gotten it on the other way there would only have been 1 or 2 threads holding it. I think either a m5 12 screw or perhaps the holes counter bored a mill or 2 would make this easier. Thanks to both of you for your quick responses. I'm really having a blast getting to this build.
     
  9. beardyblair

    beardyblair Veteran
    Builder

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    42
    This forum and its members have been a great help for me too.

    As an extra precaution I always threadlock T-nuts as they can back off over time due to vibrations.
     
    Kurt Bonk likes this.
  10. John Christian Lien

    John Christian Lien Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2016
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    4
    Is the Fusion 360 and DXF files "up to date" with the dual backlash nuts issue fixed? Great build and tutorial by the way :)
     
  11. vvr0ngpath

    vvr0ngpath Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    NEMA 23 Reduction / Stand Off Plate for solidworks
     

    Attached Files:

    FredrikBrathen and Kyo like this.
  12. Waste

    Waste New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Another kudos for me for the great tutorial and build. I am amazed by the level of prescision and details in your build manual.

    Im also on the sourcing, cutting costs department, as the whole build goes very quickly outside of my confort zone.

    Using normal T-slots vs V-slots for the structural parts reduces the cost (at least here in germany where I live). C-beams and V-slots will be used for all the linear movement of course. As I get it they are interchangable.

    I can also find the screw significantly cheaper, but only on the TR8-1,5 pitch and TR10-2pitch (in motedis). I get that the first one means a "slower" machine (no biggie) , the second one a sturdier if you go to lengths of nearly 1m. But the second option involves different bearings as far as I can tell (do those bearings to the "regular" plates, or do they also need redesigning?)

    another cost concern is the nice anti-backlash nut. In the BOM it says 7 are needed so we are on the 80euro category just for the nuts. I have seen somebody constructing them from scratch using a (teflon?) piece, so thats probably the way to go for us cheap bastards. I suppose they cannot 3d printed. But I have a stupid question. As the anti-backlash nut creates tension to keep the threads of the screw constantly on the edges, why do we need two of them on every screw. The way I get it, one would be enough.


    thank you again and the wonderfull community
     
  13. vvr0ngpath

    vvr0ngpath Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    What is the build area with the included dimensions in the Cutlist/BOM?
     
  14. Justin Christensen

    Justin Christensen Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    5
    IMG_4291.JPG IMG_4293.JPG IMG_4299.JPG IMG_4300.JPG I am very excited with my upgrade. Check out my pics. It's coming together very nice
     
    Kyo likes this.
  15. Kyo

    Kyo Master
    Staff Member Resident Builder Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2014
    Messages:
    559
    Likes Received:
    474
    @John Christian Lien
    Yes the corrected x,y axis plate drawings in dxf and skp file format in the file and drawings tab ( C-Beam Sphinx Plates Rev2.zip ) are up to date for dual nut mounting. Without access to a Windows OS right now I am unable to work on my Fusion files. The Rev3 file posted within this thread is the same as the rev2 file set with slotted nut mounts vs fixed point mounting holes. The two revisions can be used interchangeably. The original files work great when only a single nut is to be used ( center mounting point )..

    @vvr0ngpath
    Thanks for sharing the file. When building from the cut list as I did with the original build. You will end up with roughly 13"x14" a little less depending on limit/homing switch mounting and spindle/mount used.

    @Waste
    Thanks, Yes you are correct V-slot can be used along side other 20mm based aluminum extrusions. I have used Misumi Series 5 with success in the past others should work as well.

    If going with a larger dia. lead screw you can find suitable bearings to keep the plate dimensions the same. For example when using 10mm Lead screws this 10 pack of bearings Here would be the correct dimensions to serve as drop in replacements. I could not locate a flanged version but that should not be a problem.

    Check out this great video by @Savaş He covers making your own custom nuts in detail. In my build I used one anti-backlash nut block per axis and this seemed to work just fine.

    @Justin Christensen
    Nice, looking good. Not much longer and you will be back up and running making chips. :thumbsup:
     
  16. Waste

    Waste New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    @Kyo of course, you can find "thinner" bearings to match the outer diameter. Elementary dear waste (thanks sherlock) :) The video of savas is beautifully made. So one anti-backlash nut per axis is fine. thanks for confirming.

    Im already starting to salivate on the prospect of this machine (i ll notify my friends to start get going, because Im getting itchy).
     
  17. FredrikBrathen

    Builder

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey!
    I cant open the file. Error of some kind. Do you have a pdf with dimensions? Looking for distance c/c.
     
  18. tcurdt

    tcurdt Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    1
    Really nice build. I am planning my first CNC build and I do have a few question about the design if you don't mind.
    1. Why did you use two instead of just one anti-backlash nut per acme rod?
    2. I don't see a way of adjusting the anti-backlash nuts (or even the inner wheels) without disassembling. Isn't that a problem?
    3. Wouldn't it be much more stable to have wheels running under the C-Beam instead of inside?
    4. Why did you go for the massive frame? In contrast the R7 is only bolted to the table.
    5. Having the z-motor on the back (as opposed to being on the top) is nice - but doesn't the belt have drawbacks?
    6. What thickness of the plates would you suggests. If they are done in aluminium or steel.
    7. Why did you go for two y-motors on the sides instead of one in the middle?
    8. Is there something else you would change/improve for a build as large as 1000x750mm?

    cheers,
    Torsten
     
  19. Kyo

    Kyo Master
    Staff Member Resident Builder Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2014
    Messages:
    559
    Likes Received:
    474
    Hello Torsten,
    Welcome to openbuilds. :thumbsup:

    1A: In the end I built the machine using a single nut per axis and this seemed to work well.
    2A: (see 8A) some disassembly makes adjustments a lot easier.
    3A: With eight wheels running on each y-axis c-beam, the y-axis is very strong and rigid.
    4A: I included a frame as I did not want to mount the machine permanently to a bench.
    5A: I have mounted the z-axis both ways. If the ratio reduction is not needed. I would stick with direct mounting with a coupler and spacers on top.
    6A: 1/4" (6.35mm).
    7A: Simplicity, fewer parts.
    8A: Good question. I am always learning and coming up with ideas for improving. As it sits it makes for a good 1m build check out Beardyblair's build Here. I think 1000mm x 750mm would be a great size machine. As far as improvements I would incorporate into future builds; I would design in future adjustment access points for things like the back lash nut.
     
    GrayUK likes this.
  20. tcurdt

    tcurdt Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hey Kyo, thanks for the quick response! Awesome :)

    2A: How often do you have to adjust the anti-backlash nuts or even the wheels?
    5A: Oh, so you actually changed the z mounting for the ratio reduction (I thought it was mainly for changing the balance point)? Did you need more resolution on that axis?
    6A: The 1/4" (6.35mm) is aluminium I assume? I found someone offering the plates in 3mm 304 stainless steel but I don't have a feeling for whether that's good enough/comparable or even better.
    7A: I guess two separate endstops should take of that when homing but... have you ever run into trouble with one of the stepper losing steps and then being off square?
    8A: I guess one could just copy the idea of the R7. They have little triangles cut out for access. Not sure how this fits with the current plate layout though.

    Thanks!
     
  21. Kyo

    Kyo Master
    Staff Member Resident Builder Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2014
    Messages:
    559
    Likes Received:
    474
    I have a number of OB V-slot based machines 3d printers and cnc. I have not had a Eccentric wheel come lose on me yet.. How frequently the anti back lash nuts need re-adjusted to accommodate wear and tear will depend on how often and how the machine is used.

    I did not need the extra resolution for this build. I wanted to play around with the belt reduction as such incorporated it in to the build. More then anything I was going for the more compact space saving layout it offered over having the motor mounted up top.

    I have not had to much problem running dual motors on a single axis. Either dual y-axis motors on a cnc or dual z-axis on a 3d printer. But it can cause issues as others on the forum have documented. I run each motor on its own driver tied to one signal from the controller.

    Correct, I used 1/4" 6061 aluminium for the plates. Steel or aluminium can be used. If going thinner or thicker bolt/screw lengths will need to be changed to accommodate.. @Chris Laidlaw is the only person I have given permission to sale plates from my design. While I do not make anything from the sales. I have used his plate sets in my own build and can vouch for the quality of his work.. With out having used or examined plates from other sellers I can not recommend them.

    A small window like the R7 uses would work perfectly. You don't need much room just enough to get a hex wrench and box wrench in to adjust the nut.

    That is the great thing about open source designs like the Sphinx, Ox, R7 ect. each can be modified and improved on openly by each user to fit their needs. I am constantly impressed by the modification everyone has been incorporating..
     
    tcurdt and Joe Santarsiero like this.
  22. Kurt Bonk

    Kurt Bonk New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kyo, I tried importing one of DWGs into SLWKs something funky.. Thoughts?
    Regards K
     

    Attached Files:

  23. Kyo

    Kyo Master
    Staff Member Resident Builder Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2014
    Messages:
    559
    Likes Received:
    474
    That is strange. It looks like it has scaled incorrectly. That hole should be 5.1mm in Dia. your image is showing 129.540 ( 129.540 / 25.4 = 5.1 ) When importing the files did you have it set to metric? The files are exports from my Fusion 360 files. I work in Metric. ( for the most part lol )
     
  24. Kurt Bonk

    Kurt Bonk New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am measuring in mm. DWG/DXF should not care, its was universal till AutoDesk got a hold of it LeL. Check to see if your settings in Fusion 360, are they 1:1 export / output. SWKS has removed a DXF export for single parts without making a actual drawing, last year!!!! I have been having this problem also with my subcontractors. I alway add a check dimension, since it always seems to import incorrectly. In the last few years it has gotten MUCH worse. Not as UNIVERSAL as we have been told, STEP or IGES.......IMHO are more universal cross platform.
    Make er work
     
  25. tcurdt

    tcurdt Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thanks for all the info again, @Kyo
    Sure - then let me ask this way. How often do you have to adjust them? :)
    I bet I will using my CNC less. Just to give a feeling for it.

    Talking about the bolds: The M5x27mm seem really hard to find - or is that just me?
    M5x25mm or M5x30mm would be much easier to source.

    I am also wondering about the countersinks in the plates. Why not just drill/mill holes? For the bearing you have the flange.
    That way the plates would be much simpler and could also be e.g. laser cut instead of milled.
     
  26. Darathy

    Darathy Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    20
    Buy M5x30 and cut off the 3mm dont thin there is actualy a 27mm buyable screw.
     
    Kyo likes this.
  27. Kyo

    Kyo Master
    Staff Member Resident Builder Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2014
    Messages:
    559
    Likes Received:
    474
    @tcurdt not having the original sphinx build on hand to reference (belongs to another member now). I do however use my original C-beam plate maker (also using OB anti backlash nuts) regularly and like to clean, lubricate, adjust things every three months or so.

    @Darathy is spot on. I cut down a m5x30 to the needed length. A quick snip at the disc sander does the job well. While you can find m5x27 bolts in rc and skate shops, I found it to be cheaper and easier to order the 30mm from OB when I placed my order. You only pay one shipping bill this way as well.

    That is the exact reason I spec'd flanged bearings; to allow folks to get the plates watterjet/laser cut. However the x-axis front plate will still need counter bores. The bolt head must be mounted flush or under the surface to allow the z-axis c-beam to mount correctly. This can always be done after the laser cutting in a drill press or with hand drill with a tool like this "Here"..
     
    #237 Kyo, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  28. adambrum

    adambrum Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    7
    Really liking this design and build log/manual.

    Been looking at building a router on & off for several years, couldn't justify the cost of linear rails and ballscrews but was not keen on the belt drive yours fits nicely between the two.

    Ordered a load of parts from ooznest and should be able to get the plates cut tomorrow, I have altered the plates to be waterjet cut and use f608 bearings.

    Will need some advice on control system later.

    Again nice work.
     
    GrayUK and Kyo like this.
  29. tcurdt

    tcurdt Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    1
    Just wondering - why did you switch the bearings from f688 to f608?
     
  30. adambrum

    adambrum Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    7
    Just because I had them left over from a printer build.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    The OpenBuilds Team is dedicated helping you to Dream it - Build it - Share it! Collaborate on our forums and be sure to visit the Part Store for all your Building needs!
  • Like us on Facebook

  • Support Open Source FairShare Program!

    OpenBuilds FairShare Give Back Program provide resources to Open Source projects, developers and schools around the world. Invest in your future by helping others develop theirs!

    Donate to FairShare!